NATIONAL CREDIT REGULATOR SERVES TO PROTECT CONSUMERS

[00:00] Welcome to the official podcast from mycreditstatus.co.za. We will be introducing you to credit experts who will be providing valuable insight and advice from your financial health to improving your credit status and score. Your host for the show is Laura Palmieri.

Laura: [00:21] Hello and welcome to My Credit Status podcast. Our guest for today is Jimmy Golele. Now Jimmy is the senior education and communication officer at the National Credit Regulator. Now for those of you who are not aware, the National Credit Regulator is responsible for the regulation of the South African credit industry. They receive and investigate complaints and ensure that consumer rights are protected. Now, Jimmy let's get straight in the show. First of all, welcome to our podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Jimmy: [00:55] Thank you, Laura and thank you for whoever is with us in the podcast.

Laura: [01:00] Perfect. Okay, let's get straight into it. Now, what is the role of the National Credit Regulator and what is its purpose?

Jimmy: [01:10] Thank you. As you indicated the National Credit Regulator using the National Credit act regulates the credit industry in South Africa. So our role is to enforce the National Credit Act to make sure that industry participants, that will be credit providers, debt counselors, credit bureaus, they comply with the provisions of the National Credit Act. We also have a role of receiving and investigating complaints from consumers who have some issues with their experience in the credit industry and then we have a role of ensuring that the rights that are provided for, in terms of the National Credit Act are taken into consideration by the industry players. And then we also research the credit market so that we can make inputs to policymakers so that they know what is happening. They know which direction we should be going in the credit industry in South Africa.

Laura: [02:21] So it's actually a two fold situation in the sense of you out there to help the consumers, at the same time, you're collecting data, which will then help with future policymaking.

Jimmy: [02:32] Certainly, the policy-making initiatives are to ensure that there is spanners in the market and then consumers are protected.

Laura: [02:43] So it's the ultimate thing is you out there to protect the consumer.

Jimmy: [02:49] The basic thing or the most important thing is the protection of the consumers and then to protect them you have to ensure that day a fair market product.

Laura: [03:00] Okay, fair enough. So I think this goes back to now, so what are the National Credit Regulators responsibilities and what is your mandate with the National Credit Act?

Jimmy: [03:10] Thank you, Laura. Our responsibilities include amongst others ensuring that the industry players register with the National Credit Act as expected by the National Credit Act. The industry players will be your credit providers, your credit providers will be banks, micro lenders, anybody who is providing credit. People in the retail space, furniture space, all of those entities that are dispensing credit to consumers, by law, they must register with the National Credit Regulator, so we have to [inaudible 03:52] to their registration. We also register credit bureaus, all the credit bureaus in South Africa by law must register with the National Credit Regulator for them to operate as a credit bureau.

[04:03] And then there are people who assist consumers who are over-indebted and we refer to those as debt counsellors. Those must also register with the National Credit Regulator in terms of the provisions of the act and then we also register ADR, alternative dispute resolution agents and PDA's. PDA is short for payment distribution agents. All those industry players by law must register with the National Credit Regulator if they want to participate in the credit industry in Africa. We also have the responsibility of ensuring that there is consumer education in the country because a lot of the problems that consumers or the experiences that they eventually encounter are based on a lack of information.

Laura: [04:56] I agree.

Jimmy: [04:56] Consumers end up making uninformed decisions because they don't know what they are supposed to know to help them make informed decisions as and when they come back in their credit space. So the NCR has a role of doing consumer education, raising awareness, making consumers aware of the existence of the National Credit Regulator and the National Credit Act and the recourse that is available to them should things not go as they expected in the credit market. And then we also have a responsibility of investigating any transgressions of the National Credit Act. If any of the industry players that I mentioned before do not tow the line we have to investigate and take the necessary corrective steps, and then our investigations are either proactive or reactive, depending on the circumstances.

[05:50] There are times when as an entity we will just go out to a credit provider and do compliance monitoring, that is proactive. We decided to go and take [inaudible 06:03]. However, there are instances where we go out to investigate after we have received a complaint from a consumer who had a dispute with that particular credit provider or a debt counsellor or a credit bureau or whichever registered, the complaint may be against. And then, yes those are the responsibilities that we have as a National Credit Regulator under the entity.

Laura: [06:27] I must just say on a personal note with regards to My Credit Status when we applied for our reseller license, it's a procedure and I was impressed at how thorough the National Credit Regulator actually went through our application on every single level. On data protection, I mean one would think it was quite a simple thing, but it wasn't. I mean before we could get the approval it was done so thoroughly that it was quite daunting in the sense, you know what I mean? It was almost like, wow, we just applying, but this whole process. But at the end of the day it's all got to do with protecting the consumer so that when we get that license, we now know for sure that we're on par. We not doing anything illegal and correct.

Jimmy: [07:16] It is critical that we do that, Laura. You are operating in a space where any loophole may have dire consequences either for you or the consumer, so as a result we have to have a well thought out process to ensure that you as a service provider and the consumer are in a safe space, and then we don't compromise any of you. Hence, it is such a rigorous process.

Laura: [07:47] Well, I can vouch for that because you even went out to look at our data services in Jo'burg to see how secure our data services were. I mean, that just blew me over, so yes, you guys are doing your job very thoroughly and that I can vouch for.

Jimmy: [08:01] Thank you, Laura.

Laura: [08:03] Okay. Now, I think we almost touched on this, but how does the National Credit Act protect consumers? I mean, what exactly does the act entail and how does it impact on everyday consumers?

Jimmy: [08:13] The act protects consumers by making a provision that if a consumer has a grievance or a dispute relating to a credit transaction that falls under the National Credit Act, then they may lodge a complaint with the National Credit Regulator and they will get assistance for free. If a consumer registers a complaint with the National Credit Regulator and we assist them we always emphasise that they should know that it is a free service. There are times when people have complaints, but they're thinking if I contact those people they would expect me to pay. We are a government agency, therefore our services are free.

[08:54] The National Credit Act makes provision for the assistance of consumers who are over-indebted. If a consumer is over-indebted they may contact the NCR to be given advice or assistance whereby we'll either inform them to go for alternative dispute resolution or to contact a debt counsel who will assist them with that situation. They will contact the people that they owe. They will negotiate lower installments, lower interest rates to the point that they will be able to afford these installments. So those are some of the things that we do to assist consumers. schools and like I indicated before our compliance monitoring helps in the protection of consumers because it is when we do this compliance monitoring that we discover whether the industry players are doing their job as expected, and if we find that there is non-compliance then we take the corrective action as directed by the act.

Laura: [10:05] Fair enough. Can we just briefly explain exactly what Alternative Dispute Resolution means?

Jimmy: [10:14] We call it ADR in short, but it's short for Alternative Dispute Resolution agent. This means somebody registers a company whereby they undertake to assist a consumer who has a dispute relating to a credit transaction. So instead of coming to the NCR they may elect to go to this company and then that company will assist them. In a different space you may read of paralegal offices, those will be people opening up offices usually in the rural areas and semi urban areas so that they assist consumers with issues that they have. So similarly in the credit space we have people that we refer to as ADRs. They register just the same way that you registered, the ADRs also needs to register with the National Credit Regulator for them to operate as ADRs.

[11:18] So the idea is to have agencies close by to the people so that if a person in Matatiele the Eastern Cape has a complaint, they don't necessarily have to contact the NCR in Gauteng in Johannesburg. They can go to an office nearby which can assist them with their issue. However, the ADR also operates under the provisions of the National Credit Act, so they have to take into consideration what it provides for as a [inaudible 11:50] and resolve the complaint that the consumer may have.

Laura: [11:54] Okay, that's cleared it up especially because I got the name wrong. Now, what type of complaints does your organisation deal with and can you give some basic examples? The most common ones.

Jimmy: [12:04] We receive a wide range of complaints. We will look at a few, one of them would be complaints relating to debt counseling.

Laura: [12:15] Is that quite common?

Jimmy: [12:15] We receive quite a lot of those. In the debt counseling space consumers complain about a number of various things as well, including the fact that when they applied for credit, they suddenly discovered that they were under debt counselling, yet they had never applied for debt counselling. This would happen when a debt counsellor or a person claiming to be a debt counsellor contacts a consumer, spells the process to them and then before the consumer agrees that they are going under debt counselling then that person goes ahead and lists this consumer as if they are under debt counselling or debt review. So we get a lot of those as well and then we get complaints from consumers saying the PDA's, the payment distribution agent, they are collecting money from my account but they are not paying the people that I owe.

[13:13] Just before this interview, Laura, I got a call from one consumer who said one financier is threatening to repossess my car because they have not been receiving payments, but my money is being taken out month in, month out. So such complaints are brought to the NCR and we take the concerned PDA to task to find out why they are not paying or what is happening. We find complaints again in the district space as well, consumers claiming their debt counsellor is no longer contactable. They are my debt counsellor on record but I can't contact them. I send them email, no response. I call them, no response. Then how should I proceed.

[14:00] There are consumers who complain of being overcharged. The fees which a debt counsellor charges a consumer are regulated. They are not just thumb sucked. A debt counsellor must charge in accordance with the provisions and the regulations of the National Credit Act. So there are instances where we get consumers claiming, no I was charged fifteen thousand for these things which is not provided for in terms of the [inaudible 14:26]. Other types of complaints, Laura, would include the reckless lending. The act prohibits reckless lending. By reckless lending we mean a situation whereby a credit provider gives a consumer more money or more credit than they can afford to repay. The act specifically and categorically indicates or direct that a credit provider before giving credit to a consumer, they must conduct an affordability assessment. Just how much debt can this person afford to take.

[15:03] If Laura goes to a bank and say I want a hundred thousand. They shouldn't just take a hundred thousand and give, Laura. They must first check how much can Laura afford to repay. What are her current obligations and responsibilities? What are her current debts? What is her credit standing in the credit bureau? Therefore, they must make a decision which is based on affordability assessment. So there is a lot of consumers who simply said I want ten thousand and within ten minutes, ten thousand was in my account, and then I discovered that it's a struggle for me to repay this ten thousand. So we get a lot of reckless lending complaints.

Laura: [15:48] But in these situations is it usually small companies that are not registered with anyone or like the debt counsellors or the complaints with debt counsellors. Are these people registered with the NCR or are they not?

Jimmy: [16:06] You were inaudible Laura, can you repeat the question? You were not audible, Laura, can you repeat the question.

Laura: [16:10] Yes, can you hear me now?

Jimmy: [16:16] Yes, I can hear you now.

Laura: [16:16] Okay, sorry about that. Now, with the examples that you gave of stories of people complaining about debt counsellors are these debt counsellors usually registered with the National Credit Regulator? Are these unregistered debt counselors?

Jimmy: [16:34] It would be both. There would be a situation where a registered debt counsellor goes AWOL. They can't be found. They are not being helpful and then there will be a situation where a consumer has simply been taken for a ride. This person is not a debt counsellor in the first place, so they are duped into believing they're the profession of debt counselling and to minimise these occurrences, Laura, we they want to go for debt counselling they shouldn't go to debt counselling because a debt counselor has contacted them.

[17:13] If they feel the need to go to debt counselling they must look for a reputable, registered debt counsellor and if need be, they must verify the registration by calling the National Credit Regulator. I want to do business with Jimmy Golele a debt counsellor trading in Midland as they allege in their website, and then they can go ahead and get into business with this person, because there is a lot of scammers out there, Laura, who are claiming to be debt counsellors when they are not debt counsellors. And it makes it even worse that even [inaudible 17:54] even tracing then becomes a nightmare. Whereas when a consumer deals with a registered credit provider or a debt counsellor, then we know where to find them and how to find them.

Laura: [18:07] But I think Jimmy, I think this is where you mention about education, I think in this particular field I think that's where it's lacking severely with debt counselors, registered debt counselors. I think the consumer, like you say gets duped. They know they're in arrears, they get the call and they just want to sort it oy without actually having, like you say, checking out that it's a registered debt counselor, etcetera, etcetera., and that I think is where we falling short on.

Jimmy: [18:33] That is where we are falling short on and that is where we're trying to close the gap, Laura. However, you will understand and appreciate that sometimes people go through this processes while they're under duress, so even if you have conducted consumer education for this person, but just because they have received a call five days ago from an [inaudible 18:58] pertaining to repossess their car or to kick them out of their house, they don't have the time to make the necessary due diligence. They take the first company that they come across.

Laura: [19:08] I understand you're actually right. It's under duress, like you mentioned, yes. That's very sad though for that to be happening I must say.

Jimmy: [19:16] Yes, so we're still looking at the types of complaints. I mentioned debt counselling related, I mentioned the reckless lending, repossessing of goods. There are consumers who complain that I missed one installment, no notification, nothing. The guys just pitched up at my home to take my car or my furniture or whatever, so we get a lot of complaints of repossession. Prescription of debts. There are instances whereby debts prescribed. When we say a debt has prescribed, this occurs when there has been a credit agreement between party A and Party B and then Party A being the credit provider. When party B stops paying for whatever reason and party A being the credit provider folds their arms and do nothing for a period of thirty six months in terms of the National Credit Act and the prescription act such a debt prescribes, which simply means that credit provider can no longer pursue that debt or demand the consumer to pay that debt.

[20:22] Now that happens in a number of instances whereby the debt prescribes. However, five years down the line the credit provider wakes up and says, "Oh, by the way, Jimmy Golele owes me five thousand and they try and collect that, but by then that is prescribed debt. So we get a lot of that as well from consumers that I think my debt has prescribed. However, the credit provider or the collection agencies hired by the credit provider are on my case so we try and deal with that as well.

[20:57] We have a lot of credit providers, Laura, who demand upfront payments from consumers to issue credit. You want a loan from a credit provider A and credit provider A says, yes,Laura you qualify to get fifty thousand, however, before I give you fifty thousand you must pay me three thousand five hundred legal fees or advanced fee or whatever jargon they use to justify the fees that they're demanding. That is against the provisions of the National Credit Act.

[21:31] The National Credit Act doesn't have anything called upfront fee. The National Credit Act prescribes the kinds of fees which must be charged, which includes interest, initiation fee, service fee, credit life insurance, and then depending on what you taking on credit, if you're taking a car you may get a delivering fee. If you buying some complicated gadget you may get an installation fee, but we have nothing called an upfront fee and then we see there is a lot of consumers who are complaining that they're being charged upfront fees. However, our observation is that in most instances people are charged these upfront fees by unregistered credit providers who appoint the upfront fee they simply disappear from the face of the earth.

[22:15] And then the other complaint will be on the overcharging of fees. As I indicated to you the National Credit Act prescribes which fees are to be charged and it also puts caps on such fees. That a service fee it should be this much, initiation fee shouldn't exceed 15% of the principal debt. However, you still get credit providers charging an initiation fee of 23% and which is a transgression of the provisions of debt national credit act. And then we have consumers complaining about credit providers refusing to give them statements so you don't know, you're just shooting in the dark. You don't know where you're going, or what is your debt situation and then the National Credit Act makes provision that consumers must be given monthly statements of account.

[23:09] They must be given a copy of the contract,which they sign, however, there is a lot of consumers out there without the copy of the agreement they signed. There is a lot of consumers who are not getting statements, so they are simply paying into an endless deep hole and that is a transgression of the act, so those are some of the complaints. Other complaints will relate to the balance because you're not getting statements, you're not getting a copy of your contract, you don't know what your balance is, so we'll get complaints relating to that and a number of other complaints. There are also complaints that come to us, Laura, which don't belong to us. For example, there are people who are getting their ninety nine rand deduction in their bank statement. A lot of those end up in our door, but then we refer the consumer to the banking ombud because that is a complaint that would be handled by the banking ombud and not the [inaudible 24:09]

Laura: [24:09] Shoo, so you've actually got quite a lot on your plate with all these complaints.

Jimmy: [24:17] That's right, quite a lot Laura, quite a lot.

Laura: [24:17] A big job ahead of you that's all I can say. Now this is something that's happening at the moment with many South Africans struggling with the financial challenges brought on by COVID-19. What are the measures available to ease their burden?

Jimmy: [24:34] There are several things that the National Credit Regulator has done in response to COVID-19, something that caught everyone by surprise and it came unexpected. Amongst other things at the onset of COVID-19 the National Credit Regulator issued a circular to industry to extend business days. By that we mean the act provides that credit providers can take certain actions within a given period when certain actions do not happen. For example, when a consumer does not pay then the credit provider may within a given number of days take a particular action. Then when COVID-19 started and we were put on lock-down the NCR issued a circular to industry to say, please extend the business days because we are all under lockdown. Consumers are not able to work and earn an income or they've reduced income or they are not even able to come out to your shop and pay so extend the business days. Don't take action against them until further notice.

[25:44] The other initiative that we have taken as the NCR is to issue a media release to industry and to consumers at large as well, informing them of the options that they have under the current lockdown or under the current COVID-19 pandemic. The media release basically advised consumers that amongst others they have an option to use credit life insurance if they have taken a salary cut or they have a reduced salary or they have been retrenched. Amongst other things that they may consider is check if their credit product has a credit life insurance. If it has then they need to contact their credit provider and ask them to activate their credit life insurance because a credit life insurance product assists a consumer when they either lose their job or they become disabled, or they pass away. Then if they have a credit life product linked to their credit then they can activate that product to come to their assistance.

[26:54] The other option, which is given in this press release is for consumers to consider debt debt counselling, but then this will only apply to consumers who may be experiencing financial stress, but they are still employed because you can only go under debt counselling if you earn an income. Then we have indicated that is one of the options that they may consider and the last option that is indicated in that press release is that consumers may consider surrendering goods. Section one twenty seven of the National Credit Act makes a provision that if a consumer, gets into a position where they feel they can no longer afford the goods that they have under a credit agreement or where they see that potentially in the next three months, I will struggle to meet my obligations to the credit provider, they have an option to contact the credit provider and indicate their intention to surrender the goods. And then the process will unfold from there.

Laura: [27:56] And from your side have you noticed the credit providers being accommodating with this COVID-19 applying these options to the consumers? I mean are they all on board with extending, like you mentioned the payment dates, the business working days, etcetera.

Jimmy: [28:13] In the main I must say the credit industry or the participants they came to the party and tried to be of assistance and wake up to the reality of COVID-19. We did get a few complaints of credit providers who wouldn't budge, but then those were dealt with in terms of available recourse routes with the National Credit Regulator.

Laura: [28:39] Okay, but I think that's interesting that there is some relief that's available at the moment for the situation that we're in.

Jimmy: [28:48] Yes, there was some initiatives taken to try and alleviate the situation.

Laura: [28:54] Okay, that pretty much covers a lot. And now, can you, this is the interesting part as well for me, is can you give us the latest stats on, like the credit standing of consumer's, credit reports issued, new credit being granted?

Jimmy: [29:09] Thank you, Laura. In terms of the stats although they are a bit dated because we also gave an extension to credit bureaus and credit providers in terms of submitting their stats which was supposed to have been the most recent. The ones that I'm giving you, are as per the stats that were released in December. By then we had twenty five point fourteen million credit active consumers, twenty five point fourteen million credit active consumers in South Africa. Those twenty five million credit active consumers collectively had eighty million accounts.

Laura: [29:57] Wow, that's a …

Jimmy: [29:57] So of that twenty five point fourteen million credit active consumers, Laura, 57% are in good standing or were in good standing at the time, and then that 57% accounted for fourteen point thirty five million. Now, the scary part is 43%, which is about ten million consumers in South Africa are struggling with their debt, ten million.

Laura: [30:30] And this was even prior to COVID-19 and what's happened now.

Jimmy: [30:33] This is prior to COVID-19 and obviously even before COVID-19, our economy was not doing that very well and then COVID-19 came in and made the situation worse. So by the time we get the next set of stats this will probably have changed drastically. So we had 43% of consumers with impaired records. When we say they have impaired records it means they have, excuse me, they have accounts that are in arrears or they have been handed over or judgements have been taken out against them.

Laura: [31:14] Shoo, I am honestly dreading to see the new stats when they come out with what's happening now in this economy, in this world. I look forward to seeing them though.

Jimmy: [31:26] Yes, that information is also available for your perusal and for consumers perusal. This stuff that I'm giving you, the information is available on our website. Consumers when they log onto our website, they must just look for publications, then they will see CCMR and CBM. Those are the reports that contain this stats that I just shared with you.

Laura: [31:53] Okay, now what is the process now if a consumer wants to lodge a complaint with your office. What procedures are in place or what must they do?

Jimmy: [32:02] There is a number of ways that consumers may follow if they want to lodge a complaint. One, they can call the National Credit Regulator, speak to a consultant. The consultant will reduce their discussion to a writing. They will compete all the options they're giving them into a form and then they will send an acknowledgement or alternatively a consumer may send an email to [email protected], wherein they will detail their complaint in the approved ways. Or alternatively, they may go onto our website, download a complaint form, complete the complaint form, attach all the necessary documents in support of their complaint and send it back to the National Credit Regulator. Then the National Credit Regulator will acknowledge the receipt of the complaint and indicate the consultant to whom this complaint then be allocated so that the consumer may be able to make inquiries going forward.

Laura: [33:04] And what is the usual turnaround times so that the consumer knows once they have lodged a complaint.

Jimmy: [33:09] The turnaround time is sixty business days, however, this is sometimes extended because it all depends on the compliance of the other party against whom a complaint has been lodged, but in terms of our own processes we intend to resolve a consumers complaint within sixty business days.

Laura: [33:29] Okay, but once they do fill in the complaints procedure, they must have all the documentation and all the information on hand so that there's no comeback. So they submit everything that is required and then it will be an easier process.

Jimmy: [33:45] It helps when we have all the information on hand, when we have all the supporting document on hand because if we don't, then it means we'll start by either coming back to the consumer or demanding that from the credit provider and the transgressing party will obviously not be cooperative when you don't even have your own documents, so then they will play games with you hoping you will give up on pursuing the complaint. So it helps hence in our education initiatives we normally encourage consumers to make sure they take care of their important documents. Their contracts, their receipts when they make payments they should keep those safe so that should the need arise for them to be used when there is a complaint or a dispute, they become easy available and aids in the speedy resolution of the complaints.

Laura: [34:36] Okay, that's fantastic. Now I need to slip this question in quickly. Has your organisation encountered quite a few complaints with regards to credit bureaus and offering credit reports and things like that?

Jimmy: [34:51] We do get complaints regarding credit bureaus, and the act also provides that if a consumer finds information that is incorrect in the credit bureau they may lodge a complaint to seek, redress and to ensure that such information is made correct or updated so we do receive complaints in that regard. In our education initiatives as well we alert consumers that in terms of the National Credit Act they have a right to receive a free credit bureau report once a year.

[35:27] Then we see from the stats that we getting that some consumers seem to be using this right because for instance, in terms of the last statistical report that was issued, consumers requested almost three hundred and thirty nine [inaudible 35:44] on whatever information they saw in their reports. There were about forty five thousand disputes that were lodged between October and December, 2019 by consumers regarding information that is contained in their reports..

Laura: [36:07] So the complaints it seems like, more about the incorrect information on their reports, not actually how a credit bureau has been handling it? You there, Jimmy? I think we might've lost you for a second.

Jimmy: [36:24] The credit bureau complaints are also [inaudible 36:24] incorrect information. The balance that is appearing on your credit bureau report is far different from what I have or what I know to be the truth. It could be there is a fraudulent account. That account number seven in my credit report, I don't even know about that thing. I don't have a cell phone on contract, for example, but then in your credit bureau report you find that you have a contract with one of these cell phone providers, or you are taking a loan from a bank C which you don't know about. And then there will be complaints that I have paid up my debts, but in terms of your credit report I'm still owing this particular credit provider so much.

[37:19] Or I had a judgment and then this judgement has been paid up, but it still reflects in your credit bureau report and in terms of the amendments to the act when a consumer has paid up their judgement, the credit provider must within seven days inform the credit bureau and within seven days the credit bureau must also update their records, which is a far departure from what it used to be when your information remained reflecting in your report for five years. So some of these credit providers and credit bureaus have not made this huge move, they are still stuck with the five years in their head when a consumer's report must be updated when they have finished paying. So those are some of the complaints that we will be getting relating to credit bureaus, but then we try and deal with them as well as much as much as we do other complaints from other sectors of the Credit Act.

Laura: [38:18] Absolutely. Okay, now on a final note, are there any new legislation that has been released or in the pipeline?

Jimmy: [38:28] It is not new, new if I may say. The last one that we had was debt relief bill that has now been signed by the President and then the intention of the debt relief bill was to assist consumers who are way over indebted, and there is no way they can get out of that hole. For example a person who has been retrenched and they still have existing obligations. The credit provider keeps on calling you, but you're not finding a job. You are not employed. There are no prospect of you getting a job and the credit provider is on your case. So that relief measure intended to assist consumers who find themselves in such a situation. It has made progress in that it has been signed into an act, the amendments have been signed into an act by the President. We are just awaiting directive from the Presidency as to when we can implement.

Laura: [39:31] I'm sure it'll happen shortly.

Jimmy: [39:34] We hope it will happen shortly, particularly because even more people will find themselves post COVID-19 in that position.

Laura: [39:42] Absolutely, yes. No, no I'm sure we can look out for that shortly. I've got a good feeling on that one. Let's hope.

Jimmy: [39:49] We hope so too, Laura.

Laura: [39:52] Okay, Jimmy, it's really been a privilege to have you on our show, and to our audience, thank you for listening and make sure to go visit mycreditstatus.co.za for more information and show notes. Jimmy, thank you very much, hey.

Jimmy: [40:06] Thank you very much, Laura. And then we hope if any way if you do get feedback based on this discussion that we had with you, we will be grateful if you can share the feedback so we also know what is happening.

Laura: [40:19] Absolutely. We will also when the podcast is on our website there will be all the details so our audience will know the contact details, the numbers, everything, so that they can contact the National Credit Regulator straight away.

Jimmy: [40:34] Thank you so much.

Laura: [40:35] Thank you, Jimmy.

[40:36] Thank you for listening to My Credit Status podcast. Make sure you tune into our next show where we will continue to provide you with valuable information about your credit health. We value your feedback, so we would love it if you can rate and review us on iTunes. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so that you can be alerted as soon as a new episode is live. Visit mycreditstatus.co.za.